August 30, 2009

Why do I (not) hate the Yankees?

For those of you just getting in from your weekend away, or just getting online for the first time now we posted a new Sunday question earlier today. Here is the question: Why do you hate the Yankees?

Now there have been many responses that have been left, I have read them all throughout the day and I am going to post a few responses into the blog here and then give my opinion of things.

Section 36 responded, "Really, it's not the Yankees I hate, it's their "fans". :)

Whether the Yankees win or lose on a given day would mean very little if it didn't mean I'd be bombarded with idiocy the next day, or not. If the Yankees lose, I don't have to hear about how clutch Jeter is. I don't have to hear what great chemistry they have. I don't have to hear about the rings. I don't need to hear Fox Sports tell me every thirty seconds that even though they're losing...they can always come back.

That's why I'd rather see the Yankees lose than the Red Sox win. That way, I can go to the mall in peace."

Beardy was in the mood to make a little list,
"1. Jeffrey Freakin' Maier
2. Yankee Fans
3. New York/New Jersey accents
4. Mark Teixeira
5. All of those World Series rings"

Dan, from Grand Cards,"I'm not an out and out Yankee hater, in fact I find that I dislike the Red Sox more than I dislike the Yankees at this point. Here's the thing though (for both teams):

The national media is always, always talking about them. No matter what. For the rest of the country we have the Yankees crammed down our throats all season--it is exhausting and annoying, especially when our own teams barely get any love.

Of course, the other reason is that the Yankees have so much money to spend that that can just go out and get the best free agents every year. Such that even competitive teams that are one piece away don't have a chance if the Yankees want them. That is why many of us want them to lose--it feels like any championships they win will have been purely bought (and that's hard to argue with). The fact that they haven't won recently gives us all a sense of pleasure and makes us think that the universe understands the situation as well.

In all, it is just Yankee and Red Sox overexposure that makes the rest of us think "man, F*** that team" The reality is that none of us care, but we're treated as though we should care or that there is something wrong with us if we don't care. Red Sox-Yankees! Yankees do this, yankees do that! This is news! Jeter!! etc.

For the true Yankees fans out there, more power to you. I've actually found that I've come to respect the Yankees fans who can look at their team with a critical eye, but from the baseball fans in the room, there is more to the game than just the Yankees. Despite how they're presented, they are not the be all and end all of the game.

Hope that made sense and didn't sound too much like a rant."

Night Owl, "Wow, are you ready for some long-winded comments?

Where do I begin?

I wasn't around for the Brooklyn Dodgers days, but I was around for the days when the Yankees and Dodgers played each other in back-to-back World Series in 1977 and 1978.

Those were the first World Series I actually paid full attention to, and as a Dodger fan I was very excited to see my team there.

You can imagine my disappointment when the Dodgers lost both times. Each time a key call went the Yankees' way (Garvey not being called safe at home in extra innings of the '77 World Series; Reggie Jackson not being called for interference for sticking his hip out in the '78 World Series).

But that was only a small part of it. Those World Series were also my first encounter with the Yankees fans. It was the first time I had seen fans throw stuff on the field during a Series game, actually attempting to hit players. And that left an impression.

At my school, jerk-offs were Yankees fans. Not every Yankee fan was like that (my best friend was a Yankee fan). But if the kid was a jerk-off, he was probably a loud, obnoxious Yankee fan.

I don't enjoy how a lot of Yankees fans are in your face all the time. Their loud nature. That's not me. The constant reminders -- like Section 36 says -- of how successful they've been in the past, how many rings they have. How it has to be mentioned constantly on YES.

And, I grew up in the beginnings of free agency, too. I watched the Yankees throw what seemed at the time enormous amounts of money at players (everyone not a Yankee fan was outraged by how much money Winfield got at the time), trying to "buy" a World Series, instead of building your team through trades and farm system. At time it seemed like a rich man's solution -- throw money at the problem.

Now, many other teams are like the Yankees -- trying to buy a championship. But those other teams don't have George Steinbrenner, who really was an unlikeable guy for a long time.

The Yankees of my childhood were bickering, melodramatic jerks. Reggie Jackson, Billy Martin, Lou Piniella. I couldn't figure out why anyone would root for them.

Even though I never saw Brooklyn play, I've read enough about their history to sympathize with the team and really the Brooklyn history is why I am firmly a Dodger fan. The Brooklyn Dodgers were fun, they tried to win, but it wasn't the same as the Yankees where it seems to be:

WE MUST WIN ALL THE TIME. AND IF WE DON'T THERE WILL BE HELL TO PAY.

I just can't get into that. (Jim Murray, a famous sportswriter said famously, "rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for U.S. Steel." -- that's how I feel).

Sure, try to win, but don't fire everyone if you don't and don't be so loud about it.

I've said before, I could start a blog on why I don't like the Yankees. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons that I haven't mentioned.

Sorry, this is long. And I feel weird talking about how much I hate the Yankees on a blog written by two Yankees fans. You folks, I hope you know, aren't like some of the Yankees fans I encounter."

Waxaholic, "It's the fans. I don't dislike the Yankees personally. Not even Teixeira. I'm sure Derek Jeter is a likable guy. He's got an insanely hot girlfriend, and for a below average shortstop, has had some great years with the bat. But the fans make me want to tear my eyeballs out with a fork. You'd think that there are two teams in MLB. Then 28 teams in AAAA, etc....
I won't even go into Fox and Espn... that would be a book unto it's own.
For example, the Montreal Canadiens have won 24 Stanley Cups, far and away more than any other franchise. They even lef the Yankees until NY decided to buy a couple more.
Do hockey fans outside of Boston hate Montreal? Not really. Because the fans don't shove it everybody's faces every chance they get. There is a certain class about it. A mystique.
That does not exist in baseball.
As a fan of any ball player, we all think/talk about our fave as if they were better than they are. But with Yankee fans it's exponential. Posada is below average at his position. Damon is done. Jeter is not making errors only because he can't get to most grounders anymore. Don't even talk to me about Matsui. (why isn't Jetere with that bat, Dh'ing???) But if you listen to the fans, it's the second coming of Ruth / DiMaggio / etc... hardly...

Be a fan of your team. Stick up for them when other people tallk smack. Be happy when you win. but lose the attitude.


(btw, just in case, this was NOT directed at you 2 personally,I'm talking here as a whole group, please don't take offense)"

White Sox Cards, "I don't necessarily "hate" them, but I'm not a big fan of the team getting blown calls go their way. It seems to happen almost every time I watch a Yankees game, and I do watch their games more than just against the White Sox.

A perfect example is
http://whitesoxcards.blogspot.com/2009/08/safe-or-out.html

Even Stevie Wonder could have seen that, yet a trained umpire doesn't. That's my only beef with the Yankees.

I could care less about ESPN's nonstop coverage of all things Yankees. I know there's an east coast bias focusing on the Yankees and the Red Sox. I accept that and move on. That has nothing to do with the sanctity of the game itself.

I think the fans of each team should be passionate about their team. Unfortunately, a lot of fans are completely oblivious to what's going on with other teams, therefore their arguments are silly and uninformed when talking to fans of other teams.

That's one of the many reasons why I like our community. There's a lot of passion for teams, but there is an intelligent dialogue happening."

OK, I am tired of cutting and pasting, there were a few more but you get the idea.

Here is how I feel about people hating the Yankees, I totally get it. I can see how many of you dislike the Yankees as a franchise, however I don't see how you can dislike a player who was traded here just based on a uniform. While I hate the Red Sox solely for being the Yankees competition, I still like Victor Martinez. Despite Ellsbury stealing home on Pettitte and hating him for wearing that uniform I think he's a great player and going to be a catalyst on the team for years to come. Many of you expressed a hatred of the Yankees based on the fact that the media jams the Yankees, and or the Red Sox and the rivalry down your throat all the time. I get annoyed by that myself many times during the year. I absolutely HATE when the Yankees play on ESPN because you would think they had their pants down in the booth everytime Jeter came up to bat, or made a great play in the field. It drives me nuts and I love Jeter.

Someone also made mention of the fact that MLB catalogs only offered some items in Yankees and like 3 other teams and I have noticed that myself. There have been many times where I have seen things and would have liked them for a team other than the Yankees but they do not offer it. Yes, I am a Yankees fan but more over I am a fan of the game. I could sit and watch any two teams play and be happy as a clam. For fans of teams that don't get the same marketing and publicity I can definitely understand how terrible that must be to want to support your team by buying something, a t-shirt, jacket, whatever and not having the opportunity. However, that is not the Yankees fault that is a part of marketing and supply and demand. (Poor Sooz can't ever find anything Kouzmanoff-esque)

Now onto the Yankees fans... I will agree 100% that most Yankees fans are somewhat obnoxious and know nothing beyond this team. Some Yankees fans also think that the Yankees can do no wrong, that they are the best team in the universe even if we are playing terrible or like last year missed the play-offs. I was settled into the idea that we were not making the play-offs well before the end of the season and I was ok with that because most teams don't go every year, and we have been spoiled. Now that's great that I saw it that way, but there were plenty of people that were like, "big deal we missed this year, but we win every year and we won 26 championships". OK, well no. We don't win every year. We haven't won in many, many years now and two words- Arizona Diamondbacks. 'Nuff said. I definitely can see how people can hate some of the Yankees fans, but really that has nothing to do with the team itself.

I also will agree with some of you on the fact that I would like to see more players developed from our farm system which is why I was very against trading Hughes, Joba, Cano, or even Melky for other players. I know that with young pitchers with extemely high hopes or over-rated minor league pitchers they don't always pan out or even make it in the big leagues but we could at least try. At some point when Jeter, Mariano, Pettitte, and Posada retire it would be nice to see our farm system being passed the torch. I love Cervelli and Montero as potential replacements. Cervelli did well here, he played with confidence and he was fired up to win.

While I can see many of the reasons you have all mentioned, the Yankees are still my team and have been since I can remember watching baseball and listening to Bill White and Phil Rizzuto calling games when we had guys like Matt Nokes (who?) and Kevin Maas (overrated and a bust) amongst many others. I grew up with the Yankees and remember watching them either at home or at the stadium when there were maybe 20,000 people there if you were lucky in the 1990's.

Sorry if this was all out of whack and jumbled but I just wanted to get some of the points you guys mentioned out there and let you know what I think of what you all said (and that some of you aren't all that crazy) and that I do understand it. Now I am off to watch Sunday night baseball, with the tv on mute of course.

P.S. I don't think the O's had a chance at Teixeira regardless of money since the guy idolized Don Mattingly and was a Yankees fan as a kid sitting in Baltimore watching Donnie Baseball.

11 comments:

  1. Woo! Matt Nokes! A beloved Tiger and my all time favorite "Starting Lineup" figure in full catcher's gear and mask in hand.

    ReplyDelete
  2. You're right about the O's and Tex. Baltimore was there just to drive up the price.

    Since I didn't get in on the original post I'll say I don't like the Yankees simply because they are the Yankees.

    For love to exist, dislike must also exist.

    Justin G.
    Orioles Fan.

    ReplyDelete
  3. You're absolutely right about the Orioles & Teixeira. It doesn't matter because the media (local and national) made it appear that Baltimore was in the picture (and at one point the front runner). Wherever he landed, my hate meter for that team was bound to rise. It certainly didn't help that he ended up going to a team that was already pretty high on the hate meter.

    Hate is such a terrible word to use. I don't hate anything, not even Jeff Kent. Please replace the word "hate" in the above statement with the word "extremely dislike".

    ReplyDelete
  4. As you well know I am a die hard Red Sox fan. I'm supposed to hate the Yankees, that is just the way the world is supposed to work. I don't hate them though. I respect the Yankees. Yep I said it. Do I want them to loose? You bet, every game. (and it just may take that for us to catch them this year) I respect that ownership does everything it possibly can to win for thier fans. I think that deep down it is the reason others don't like them. They wish that thier own team tried as hard to put together a winner as the Yankees. Oddly enough unlike everyone else that posted something I don't dislike thier fans either. But the reason for that is I don't know any. That's right, the little town of West Plains has zero Yankee fans (and one Red Sox fan) (make that 2 Red Sox fans because the cashier I had at Wal Mart the otherday saw my Red Sox wallet and Red Sox checkbook and let me know that she had justmoved here from Boston) Everyone here is a Cardinal fan and to me Cardinal fans are a pain in the but. Thank godwebeat them in 04 so I didn't have to live with that ever since. Okay, backon subject. I even respect some of the players (notice I said some). I even made a list one time of Yankees that I respected. (for some reason lists are a big thing for me, everything should be as simple as a list) I limited it to Yankees of my lifetime and it went something like: Bernie Williams, Dave Winfield, Jeter, Mariano... I'm stuck at 4 right now but I'm sure I could come up with a few more if my life depended on it. Alright that is long enough for a comment. Heck I should have just wrote my own post.

    ReplyDelete
  5. A South Park quote

    "But what is evil anyway?
    is there reason to the rhyme?
    Without evil there can be no good,
    So it must be good to be evil sometimes."

    After I commented on the blown call in Saturday's game, another one happened in Sunday's game that went the Yankees way. Ugh.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I'm late to the party. But here's my 2 cents.

    I think I have a different perspective as someone who grew up in Cleveland. We have always had a (hard earned) inferiority complex when it comes to comparing ourselves to different cities. None moreso than New York. Cleveland had always wanted to be New York. Heck we even included New York in our short lived, ill fated motto: "New York is an Apple, but Cleveland's a plum."

    Seriously. That really happened.

    New York is like the big brother that we want to be like, but know we can never be as good, no matter what we do.

    But that's more of a big picture thing. Personally, I'm not a fan of the Yankees for all of the reasons already mentioned. I hate that CC...OUR CC...is a Yankee, and that it was a forgone conclusion. If the Yankees wanted him, that's were he would be. And that's where he is. And there was nothing anyone could do about it. The Ynakees get whoever they want, and that's the way it is. SO, yeah, that drives me nuts.

    I'm already dreading losing future Yankee Grady Sizemore.

    The other problem is the fans. We are overrun in Cleveland whenever the Yankees are in town. However, it's not the fans from New York that bother me. The last Yankee game I went to I sat behind some New Yorkers and they couldn't have been nicer.

    No, what drives me nuts is the Cleveland natives who have decided that they are Yankee fans. They are annoying, obnoxious, and a little pathetic to tell you the truth.

    We also get the same thing with Steelers "fans" and worst of all Red Sox "fans". The sox fans are definately the worst the last few years. Just a bunch of A-holes in the stands making spectacles of themselves with their yelling and taunting. A lot of classless behavior.

    And mostly from Cleveland Suburbs.

    But back to the Yankees. The only one who gets a pass is Lebron. It might be hypocritical, but when you become the best player on the planet and m=lay for my team, you earn yourself a pass.

    Sorry this is so long. I didn't intend it to be when I started.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Wow - great discussion!

    As you might know, I am a former Yankees fan. I rooted from them as a kid, from approximately 1985 - 1996. From 1989 - 1992, they were one of the worst teams in the majors, and during the other years, they were a good team, but they didn't have any ridiculous financial advantages over all of the other teams like they do today.

    To be honest, what made me lose interest in the Yankees was the forced resignation of Buck Showalter and the forced retirement of Don Mattingly after the 1995 season. I absolutely hated their replacements, Joe Torre and Tino Martinez, for many years after that.

    But the thing that caused me to drift further and further away from being a Yankees fan was their extravagant revenues, and their ability to go out and buy any player that they wanted. It started in 1995 when they were able to add three of the best pitchers in baseball - Jack McDowell, David Cone, and John Wetteland simply because they could afford to pay them much more than the teams that they came from. It got absolutely ridiculous when they brought in Roger Clemens a few years later, followed by Mike Mussina, Jason Giambi, A-Rod, etc. Basically, the Yankees could have ANY player in MLB that they wanted, all they had to do was throw more money at them than any other team could afford.

    Now, are the Yankees totally to blame for this? Not really. It's not their "fault" that they simply have much more revenue than any other MLB team. It's because they play in the largest market in the country, they have that winning tradition, and they've won so much in the last 15 years or so. If I was running a team, and I had the same financial resources as the Yankees, I'd probably make most of the same moves that they have...

    So I don't "hate" the Yankees - but I do hate the fact that MLB has done almost nothing to even the playing field among teams. It is ridiculous that teams like the Yankees, and about 5-6 other teams, are the ONLY teams that are able to go out and sign big name free agents every year or trade for expensive players. And they're able to keep their own star players around for many years. There are about 20 MLB teams who cannot do that, and it sucks for their fans.

    Sure, some people hate the Yankees just because of something that they dislike about the team or their fans. But for me, I just hate the situation, that the Yankees and a few other fat cat teams, have such a huge financial advantage over everyone else.

    I'm definitely hoping that in the next CBA, we'll see greatly increased revenue sharing, and MAYBE even some progress towards a salary cap or floor. Or maybe I'm just dreaming...

    I'm curious though, as a Yankees fan, how do you feel about increased revenue sharing and a potential salary cap? Do you want the Yankees to continue to have a huge financial advantage over everybody else, or would you be OK with an evened playing field, where the Yankees have just as much of a chance as every other team to be competitive? Is it OK for you if the Yankees aren't in the post-season EVERY year, and they just make it maybe once every 5-6 years?

    ReplyDelete
  8. Haha I love this. I feel the same way, but even more strongly so for Red Sox fans. I live in the Boston area (A's fan for life) and I honestly have such a intense dislike for Red Sox fans that it has made me hate the team itself.

    From the ones I have encountered, Red Sox fans are the most biased, impatient fans in the world, and think that if the player doesn't play for the Sox, they suck.

    Anyways, great post.

    Evan
    baseballcardhotspot.blogspot.com

    ReplyDelete
  9. Why I LOVE the Yankees: With a few lean years in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's interspersed with a few World Series titles, the Yankees have been determined to put the best team possible out on the field. Isn't that the point? Aren't teams supposed to win? Is it the Yankees fault that the Pirates won't field a competitive team? Is it George M. Steinbrenner's fault that Carl Pohlad won't keep Johan Santana on the Twins? Is it the Yankees fault that the Blue Jays traded David Cone to them for Marty Janzen and some potato chips?
    Do all of you Yankee haters think that Yankee fans love it when ESPN focuses on the Yankees and Red Sox and sees the need to make it an 8 PM game on a travel night? Is it the Yankees fault that MLB.com and the catalog offer Yankees stuff and a few other teams for a lot of merchandise? New York is the media capitol of the world. It is also a city of 8 million and a metropolitan area of over 14 million. When the Yankees AAA franchise came out to Scranton/Wilkes-Barre they set International League attendance records...there is a reason for that. There is a reason why the Yankees and Red Sox are often the Royals' biggest draw.
    The point of sports is to win. It isn't the Yankees fault the Royals, Pirates, , A's, and a whole slew of other teams won't spend to win.

    On a side note, I agree with many when they complain about the fans. So do I/ The winning years have, of course, put a lof of fair weather loud mouths on the teams wagon. Many of them jumped ship in 2004 over to the team of Idiots. Where never before would I see a Red Sox hat I now see and army. Those people still have their Yankee hats in the closet.
    True Yankee fans don't hate the haters. They usually get why their team is hated and can jib and jab in a good natured way with opposing fans. Trust me...Yankee fans get sick of the Yankees being everywhere. you think we like having to figure out what channel our team is on...is it YES, My 9, Fox, or ESPN? You think we LIKE hearing Joe Morgan attempt to give analysis that sounds coherent every Sunday the Yankees and Red Sox play? Man, you must be crazy. If other teams approached the game like the Yankees the game might be better off.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Some points on the various quotes..

    Not all of the big names were free agent signings, Clemens in trade, Arod in trade.

    The owner wants to win, today, tomorrow, forever. Don't we all want to win?

    I thought the "Luxury Tax" was supposed to be shared amongst the small market teams. I don't believe some of them are using those funds to retain players or improve their team. MLB needs to address this.

    2000 - Last World Series win for the Yankees, so no, we don't win every year, but, we are competitive.

    The Rays, (should have stayed Devil Rays), showed that you don't need a big payroll to win, just good pitching and defense.

    The Sawx, if you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend the book Emperors and Idiots. It chronicles the Yankee/Red Sox rivalry since the beginning until 2004 (the last chapter was tough on this Yankee fan). I am a long time Yankee fan, (1974, I know there are a bunch of young wippersnappers here ;-) and I don't hate the Sox, but I sure respect them (except for Ortiz, and not just because of the recent allegations, I have been expecting him to go up to the plate with a suit of armor soon, lose the protective gear, it gives him an unfair advantage when batting).

    Theo Epstein is a pretty sharp GM, I respect the fact that even though he has money, he tends to find diamonds in the rough.

    OK, lost train of thought, time to quit.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Wow! What a post :) I wish we could have studied baseball and sports theory like this in school. Then my grades probably would have been better.

    ReplyDelete